THE DEBATE THAT TOOK PLACE ON WAAR....(17-18 july)
This Debate was about the subject that people love to talk about...MDA and Vegan Education
These are a few comments that was taking from that debate... These highlights show that there is a lot of emotion and defence of a particular method
Roger Yates, said yes, "i support some MDA..."
These are also other comments from various people in attendance
Education a good way to start teaching children and anyone who is at a complete loss of what`s going on
...but to get anythging accomplished, not a chance
(the topic shifted to arson, is it a legitimate tactic or is violence due to the possibility of an insect being hurt inside?)
not violence but vandelism
the intention is to hurt the oppresors financially so they cannot continue to kill animals
Oh, I agree on that aspect - you cannot hold a building to a higher state of sentience than animals for gawd's sake.
But our outcome is non-violent
(But if you use violence, you are no better than the abusers, you cannot be vegan)
There is nothing in the definition of vegan that says non violence
there is a lot to be learned from histories armed rebel forces such as the IRA, Che Guevara, the Polish resistance ect.... if only we could become as organised and structured we ACTUALLY have a chance of achieving freedom
placing moths in fur stores, anything, everything helps, but we need to be outspoken in the public eye, over and over again
without an armed force hitler would never have stopped
lets stop trying to be morally acceptable when we know we are morally right
(then the topic shifted to a more serious side, with the Education-only guests, repeatedly asking the same question, which began to irritate some guests, they were talking about a comment made on another forum, by someone who wasn't in attendance at this debate, something that sounded like it was advocated assault on a person, as being part of by Any Means Necessary, as advocated by proponents on MDA. The suggestion raised at the debate was they were trying to bait someone into saying they would support killing a vivisectionist. They were asked repeatedly, what would be achieved, how is that "necessary", that question went unanswered)
i think some people focus on "any means" and not the "necessary" part
we have nothing to hide, even if we ever manage to get organised and united we will always have those who infiltrate our movement again its time to stop being afraid of what we stand for and start standing
(Then the attack moved onto Sea Shepherd, and reports of the captain, Peter Bethune, eating steak and going fishing, and the suggestion we should not support them, but does that negate the whales that have been saved? or is it hypocritcal)
"save one, eat one"
After the debate, this is the conclusion we (Lorna and Alison) came to -
People from the education side are diluted... in there beliefs..am sorry to say...
They go around slagging of people for what they belief in and organisations that try and help....
The one thing that kept coming up was what does By Any Means Necessary actually mean...
“ We declare our right on this earth to be a man, to be a human being, to be respected as a human being, to be given the rights of a human being in this society, on this earth, in this day, which we intend to bring into existence by any means necessary.
— Malcolm X, 1965...
These animals are suffering and some people are worried about the damage to building in case there is an insect inside, while ignoring the violence that we know is perpetrated against animals, what about the hurt and suffering these animals are going through? Isn't that more important...
You say we are violent...and you put us in categories...like rapist, paedophiles... and even vivsectors ( http://www.facebook.com/notes/brooke-cameron/a-question-for-jamie-rivet/137417866280493) but those are who we fight with in a daily basis...
For some reason only known to yourself.. you think your way is better than ours... You think if it doesn't involve people or a building getting hurt...that is ok...
Well let me say this - it is disgusting.....That you think you have the right to judge us... why not try and judge the people that we are fighting... The system and the law. The abusers... the murders.. NOT your fellow ARAs... and if you can't stop the insults, then move over there is no room for you... we need all the help we can get... we don't need you to slow us down.
And to the education-only people we say this -
Stop fighting us, those who disagree with you, and maybe spend that time to save an animal. It's not about whose tactic is better or right, it's about the animals.
written by Lorna devious and alison stone
This Debate was about the subject that people love to talk about...MDA and Vegan Education
These are a few comments that was taking from that debate... These highlights show that there is a lot of emotion and defence of a particular method
Roger Yates, said yes, "i support some MDA..."
These are also other comments from various people in attendance
Education a good way to start teaching children and anyone who is at a complete loss of what`s going on
...but to get anythging accomplished, not a chance
(the topic shifted to arson, is it a legitimate tactic or is violence due to the possibility of an insect being hurt inside?)
not violence but vandelism
the intention is to hurt the oppresors financially so they cannot continue to kill animals
Oh, I agree on that aspect - you cannot hold a building to a higher state of sentience than animals for gawd's sake.
But our outcome is non-violent
(But if you use violence, you are no better than the abusers, you cannot be vegan)
There is nothing in the definition of vegan that says non violence
there is a lot to be learned from histories armed rebel forces such as the IRA, Che Guevara, the Polish resistance ect.... if only we could become as organised and structured we ACTUALLY have a chance of achieving freedom
placing moths in fur stores, anything, everything helps, but we need to be outspoken in the public eye, over and over again
without an armed force hitler would never have stopped
lets stop trying to be morally acceptable when we know we are morally right
(then the topic shifted to a more serious side, with the Education-only guests, repeatedly asking the same question, which began to irritate some guests, they were talking about a comment made on another forum, by someone who wasn't in attendance at this debate, something that sounded like it was advocated assault on a person, as being part of by Any Means Necessary, as advocated by proponents on MDA. The suggestion raised at the debate was they were trying to bait someone into saying they would support killing a vivisectionist. They were asked repeatedly, what would be achieved, how is that "necessary", that question went unanswered)
i think some people focus on "any means" and not the "necessary" part
we have nothing to hide, even if we ever manage to get organised and united we will always have those who infiltrate our movement again its time to stop being afraid of what we stand for and start standing
(Then the attack moved onto Sea Shepherd, and reports of the captain, Peter Bethune, eating steak and going fishing, and the suggestion we should not support them, but does that negate the whales that have been saved? or is it hypocritcal)
"save one, eat one"
After the debate, this is the conclusion we (Lorna and Alison) came to -
People from the education side are diluted... in there beliefs..am sorry to say...
They go around slagging of people for what they belief in and organisations that try and help....
The one thing that kept coming up was what does By Any Means Necessary actually mean...
“ We declare our right on this earth to be a man, to be a human being, to be respected as a human being, to be given the rights of a human being in this society, on this earth, in this day, which we intend to bring into existence by any means necessary.— Malcolm X, 1965...
These animals are suffering and some people are worried about the damage to building in case there is an insect inside, while ignoring the violence that we know is perpetrated against animals, what about the hurt and suffering these animals are going through? Isn't that more important...
You say we are violent...and you put us in categories...like rapist, paedophiles... and even vivsectors ( http://www.facebook.com/notes/brooke-cameron/a-question-for-jamie-rivet/137417866280493) but those are who we fight with in a daily basis...
For some reason only known to yourself.. you think your way is better than ours... You think if it doesn't involve people or a building getting hurt...that is ok...
Well let me say this - it is disgusting.....That you think you have the right to judge us... why not try and judge the people that we are fighting... The system and the law. The abusers... the murders.. NOT your fellow ARAs... and if you can't stop the insults, then move over there is no room for you... we need all the help we can get... we don't need you to slow us down.
And to the education-only people we say this -
Stop fighting us, those who disagree with you, and maybe spend that time to save an animal. It's not about whose tactic is better or right, it's about the animals.
written by Lorna devious and alison stone
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